1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

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1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby cj_mack » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:56 am

Hello,

I am looking at buying myself a Cefiro Wagon, probably 1997 or 1998 model. My girlfriend has a 97 VQ20DE model, and it is very nice, just a bit lacking in power for my liking.

I realise it is a larger car, so with the 2 litre you need to push the pedal a bit to get it moving, so therefore using more fuel. My theory is, with the 2.5 litre, it has more power, so less effort is required, so less fuel used. Does anyone know how much difference roughly between the 2 engines in fuel use?

Also, I will be looking at possibly using the vehicle as a rescue/response unit for an ambulance company, so I would like to do some minor mods to boost the speed/brakes. How would these effect reliability and fuel economy? I don't want to do anything that would effect those too much. If I had the money I would drop a VQ35DE in it or something, but unfortunately I don't have the money!

Any help on this would be great! I'm still quite a while away from purchasing, (up to 12 months) but I want to do a lot of research before paying more than $1000 for my 2nd car!

Sam.
Current cars:
1995 Nissan Cefiro VQ25DE Sedan
1997 Nissan Cefiro VQ20DE Wagon - not actually mine, but it's in the family...

Previous cars:
1993 Toyota Caldina 2.0CZ Diesel
1995 Hyundai Lantra 1.8GLS
1995 Maxima J30 VG30E Auto - 250,000km and finally dead...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:32 am

You'll probably be better getting the 3 Litre. 2.5 is still probably slightly underpowered for the chassis weight. The 3 litre will get you around 500 - 600km per tank if you drive it moderate to sedately. It is a V6 - It will drink the fuel.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby cj_mack » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:40 am

As far as I know, there are no wagons of this age with a 3 litre, unless I dropped an engine in it. I have never found one for sale. As for fuel economy, my girlfriend does 500km of city/hill driving on one tank in the 2 litre.
Current cars:
1995 Nissan Cefiro VQ25DE Sedan
1997 Nissan Cefiro VQ20DE Wagon - not actually mine, but it's in the family...

Previous cars:
1993 Toyota Caldina 2.0CZ Diesel
1995 Hyundai Lantra 1.8GLS
1995 Maxima J30 VG30E Auto - 250,000km and finally dead...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:43 am

Yes, there is. It's the Cefiro 30 Cruising/Cruising G. Nice wagon too - just a little hard to find, but they do exist. None on trademe at the moment though unfortunately...
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby cj_mack » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:52 am

Sounds very nice. I shall keep an eye out. I will probably still do a few minor mods to it. When I'm going somewhere in it, I won't be driving it that hard. When I have it on a medic shift I will have a fuelcard to top-up afterwards, so It doesn't matter how thirsty it is when it's being driven hard. We worry more about response time then fuel economy in those situations.

The reason I like this wagon is that it is quite large, yet not overly "tank-like" in it's handling. Also with a 3 litre it should have quite a bit of get up and go. My VG30E was quick enough for me as a first car. :aarr:
Current cars:
1995 Nissan Cefiro VQ25DE Sedan
1997 Nissan Cefiro VQ20DE Wagon - not actually mine, but it's in the family...

Previous cars:
1993 Toyota Caldina 2.0CZ Diesel
1995 Hyundai Lantra 1.8GLS
1995 Maxima J30 VG30E Auto - 250,000km and finally dead...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:42 pm

Never seen a cefiro wagon will have 2 look 2 check on out sometime

A lil off topic here but cj_mack in ur sig it says you had a 95 j30?? didnt they stop making them early 94?
1993 Nissan Maxima 3.0i SL
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby stevesmax » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:29 pm

Dazedmaxima93 wrote:A lil off topic here but cj_mack in ur sig it says you had a 95 j30?? didnt they stop making them early 94?


An off topic reply...
The J30 Maxima was available new in NZ untill approx half way through 1995 when the A32 was released. Nissan NZ even printed brochures in 1995 for the J30 telling us how "1995 Maxima...better than ever" See the link.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1825
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:42 am

Sweet, thanks for that stevesmax, back on topic now!
1993 Nissan Maxima 3.0i SL
3.0l V6 VG30E
230,000 and still going!
Instead of handing out pills for depression they should hand out enrollment forms for the army!
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby cj_mack » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:13 pm

Yeah I do believe my J30 was one of the last ones made in NZ. It even confused me and I signed up for the wrong model on the forums, as I thought it was an A32 until I found the plate with engine code under the bonnet.

Another question, any idea how much damage is caused when driving an engine hard from a cold start? As a response unit I may have to do this, and I'm a bit concerned about it.
Current cars:
1995 Nissan Cefiro VQ25DE Sedan
1997 Nissan Cefiro VQ20DE Wagon - not actually mine, but it's in the family...

Previous cars:
1993 Toyota Caldina 2.0CZ Diesel
1995 Hyundai Lantra 1.8GLS
1995 Maxima J30 VG30E Auto - 250,000km and finally dead...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Sinturion » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:31 am

Cefiro station wagons Japanese 10-15 mode fuel test (L/100km)
VQ20: 9.8
VQ25: 10.2
VQ30: 10.7

The 10-15 tests fuel economy while accelerating and decelerating to different speeds in a certain time frame - sort of like simulating city style driving. If you were doing long distance driving the difference between the engine sizes would be pretty much nothing. It's idling where the 2L engine will get you much better fuel economy (eg waiting for traffic lights etc).

I've seen a few 3L cefiro wagons - pretty rare though.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:45 am

cj_mack wrote:Another question, any idea how much damage is caused when driving an engine hard from a cold start? As a response unit I may have to do this, and I'm a bit concerned about it.


Try not to do it lol. It's not good. Over time probably quite a bit of damage. An engine is like the human body in this respect.. its always good to warm up before putting yourself through stresses. As a human, all sports players have to warm up/stretch before going out to play. It helps lower the risk injury.. you can apply this to an engine as well.

I still sometimes drive my car cold, but I make sure I dont rev it over about 2,500 rpm until its completely warm.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby cj_mack » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:22 pm

Yeah hopefully it shouldn't be very often. It is something I'm worried about. When I'm at an event I might just have to turn the engine on occasionally to keep it warm if it's likely I'm going to be called out.

I have driven a Toyota Hiace Ambulance with a V8 on a stone cold engine in winter on a call out, with the foot on the floor. It definitely behaved differently to usual, more so the transmission than anything. It would pause before changing, and was a bit rough when it changed. Not something I would want to do everyday.

The Hiace was great fun with the V8 however!
Current cars:
1995 Nissan Cefiro VQ25DE Sedan
1997 Nissan Cefiro VQ20DE Wagon - not actually mine, but it's in the family...

Previous cars:
1993 Toyota Caldina 2.0CZ Diesel
1995 Hyundai Lantra 1.8GLS
1995 Maxima J30 VG30E Auto - 250,000km and finally dead...

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."
cj_mack
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby bronz » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:33 pm

Sinturion wrote:Cefiro station wagons Japanese 10-15 mode fuel test (L/100km)
VQ20: 9.8
VQ25: 10.2
VQ30: 10.7


Hmmm i get 11.5 L/100km shows how i drive :)
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1998 30 S Touring (Dalleymax)
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:17 pm

claimed figures are always an exaggeration.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby bronz » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:24 pm

yes well.... my car manual says it does 10.0 L/100km
1995 30G (Frangipani Machine)
Cannon|Y-pipe|HAI Next mods wanted:Springs|FSTB|RSTB


1998 30 S Touring (Dalleymax)
MEVI|FSTB|RSTB|SPRINGS|TINTS|GREDDY EMANAGE BLUE|SUPERCHARGER @ 11psi Next mods wanted:Shift Kit|Headers|Y-Pipe


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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:32 pm

haha... if you were driving miss daisy.

i cant seem to get your car below about 12.5?

And my supermax would be somewhere around 17.5?? lol I drink nearly a quarter of a tank of fuel going to work and back each morning.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby bronz » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:41 pm

yes, hence why ur car cant be a daily driver anymore.... its like paying for a taxi to and from work!!!!
1995 30G (Frangipani Machine)
Cannon|Y-pipe|HAI Next mods wanted:Springs|FSTB|RSTB


1998 30 S Touring (Dalleymax)
MEVI|FSTB|RSTB|SPRINGS|TINTS|GREDDY EMANAGE BLUE|SUPERCHARGER @ 11psi Next mods wanted:Shift Kit|Headers|Y-Pipe


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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:46 pm

it's the taxi from hell :evil:
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby bronz » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:48 pm

HAHAHAHA would be for most people....
1995 30G (Frangipani Machine)
Cannon|Y-pipe|HAI Next mods wanted:Springs|FSTB|RSTB


1998 30 S Touring (Dalleymax)
MEVI|FSTB|RSTB|SPRINGS|TINTS|GREDDY EMANAGE BLUE|SUPERCHARGER @ 11psi Next mods wanted:Shift Kit|Headers|Y-Pipe


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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:32 pm

Nice, husband and wife haveing a convo on a forum!
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:39 am

lol yeah it is a bit weird..

we do actually talk in person ya know :P
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:56 am

Yes Jordan, of course you do :)
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:13 pm

lol. bronz, what are we having for dinner tonight? can we have dominos? :D
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:50 pm

mmm pizza, gonna invite me over?
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Instead of handing out pills for depression they should hand out enrollment forms for the army!
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Maximus » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:00 pm

can i come?????

nah dominoes is crap

guess ill just have to make my own again... sniff sniff
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Timmyp34 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:40 pm

Maximus wrote:can i come?????

nah dominoes is crap

guess ill just have to make my own again... sniff sniff



I am in my new place with the to lesi's :D and getting dinner cooked for me to night 3>

the cooking some flash chicken stuff :drinkers:
Then i moved to aussie:
'93 S13 Nissan Siliva SR20DET
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=28042#p28042


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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:42 pm

lesi's? Lesbians? Cooking for you? Hahaha... careful man. To them, you're essentially useless and have no function as a human being except to assist in multiplying.. and even that is sketchy with the advent of new research which shows women can be inseminated with sperm from mice.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:54 pm

sperm of mice? MOUSE BOY! It's just wrong. How did we get from fuel use 2 sperm from mice?
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Instead of handing out pills for depression they should hand out enrollment forms for the army!
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Timmyp34 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:23 pm

jordan wrote:lesi's? Lesbians? Cooking for you? Hahaha... careful man. To them, you're essentially useless and have no function as a human being except to assist in multiplying.. and even that is sketchy with the advent of new research which shows women can be inseminated with sperm from mice.



lol if they where like that they wouldnt of wanted me to move in. they could be bi for all i know
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm

Keep dreaming timmy :P
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Timmyp34 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:54 pm

Dazedmaxima93 wrote:Keep dreaming timmy :P



what i better go back to the real world(go to sleep) then.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:51 am

hahahahahah :P "could" be bi.. oh right timmy... sure. Wait for the invite first :P
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Timmyp34 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:10 pm

jordan wrote:hahahahahah :P "could" be bi.. oh right timmy... sure. Wait for the invite first :P

its drinks here to night so i get to meet all there mates hehe.


oh dont sleep on the floor sleep in my bed i dont mind..honset
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:19 pm

Sinturion wrote:Cefiro station wagons Japanese 10-15 mode fuel test (L/100km)
VQ20: 9.8
VQ25: 10.2
VQ30: 10.7

The 10-15 tests fuel economy while accelerating and decelerating to different speeds in a certain time frame - sort of like simulating city style driving. If you were doing long distance driving the difference between the engine sizes would be pretty much nothing. It's idling where the 2L engine will get you much better fuel economy (eg waiting for traffic lights etc).

I've seen a few 3L cefiro wagons - pretty rare though.


Okay I put $46 of 91 in my car when it was 'fuel light empty' and its nearing back to the E with about 200kms on the clock. 91 was about 1.68 so if my calculations are correct = $46/1.68pL = 27.4L = 13.7Kms/L... but then again a lot of that was because of this...
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Maximus » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:04 pm

you should be putting in higher octane, and maybe change your knock sensor

get a nissan service centre to check your codes if you have to
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Sinturion » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:14 pm

The most accurate way of measuring your fuel economy (without consult or any other instrument) is to top up your car until full (having the pump click off). Reset your counter. Drive until the petrol light comes back. Top up at the same station - again waiting for it to click off automatically. Divide the KMs on your counter by the number of litres it took to fill up for km/l result. If you want L per 100KM - divide 100 by your km/l result.

*puts away nerd glasses*
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Maximus wrote:you should be putting in higher octane, and maybe change your knock sensor

get a nissan service centre to check your codes if you have to


Yeah I realize that now about the octane -still on my 1st topup... getting low now though...

will probably hit up Newmarket Nissan they know what's going on.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
VQ20DE w/ OEM Cefiro MEVI = Wildcat High Flow Pod HAI = DR Mod w/ WOT Switch = Clear Headlights Mod = 35% DIY Tints =
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:13 am

I managed to drink 1/2 a tank of fuel in 5 minutes when my return line fell off my fuel pump.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Timmyp34 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:21 pm

i didnt see a differnce using 08 in my VQ20
Then i moved to aussie:
'93 S13 Nissan Siliva SR20DET
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=28042#p28042


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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:37 pm

driving around on Mobil 98 tonight (about 30Kms or so) didnt really notice any real difference from the previous Tank of Caltex 91. hmmm... that is except for the price!!!!
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Dazedmaxima93 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:12 pm

get a ummm, what ya call em? ooh that's right, a digital fuel gauge.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:27 am

Maximus wrote:you should be putting in higher octane, and maybe change your knock sensor

get a nissan service centre to check your codes if you have to

You were correct ECU shows Knock Sensor gonners...
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
VQ20DE w/ OEM Cefiro MEVI = Wildcat High Flow Pod HAI = DR Mod w/ WOT Switch = Clear Headlights Mod = 35% DIY Tints =
sproyd
2500 rpm
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Maximus » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:18 am

well i am a genius

howd you find that out btw?
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:55 pm

I just pulled ECU codes this morning... dead knock sensor was thankfully the only one. Good to know my ECU is doing its job
my cardomain
Image
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
VQ20DE w/ OEM Cefiro MEVI = Wildcat High Flow Pod HAI = DR Mod w/ WOT Switch = Clear Headlights Mod = 35% DIY Tints =
sproyd
2500 rpm
2500 rpm
 
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:51 pm

sproyd wrote:I just pulled ECU codes this morning... dead knock sensor was thankfully the only one. Good to know my ECU is doing its job

But then again that rules out Rev sensor for why my Tacho isn't working... what else could it be I wonder
my cardomain
Image
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
VQ20DE w/ OEM Cefiro MEVI = Wildcat High Flow Pod HAI = DR Mod w/ WOT Switch = Clear Headlights Mod = 35% DIY Tints =
sproyd
2500 rpm
2500 rpm
 
Posts: 435
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby jordan » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:33 pm

not entirely true. the ecu wont necessarily guarantee to pull a code on a faulty sensor. It works well with a knock sensor, but anything else is kind of hit and miss.
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby Maximus » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:57 am

i thought it was the knock sensor that didnt show up?
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby killerVQ30DE » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:59 am

Maximus wrote:i thought it was the knock sensor that didnt show up?


Knocksensor does show up [03][04] but it doesn't turn on the ChecK Engine light unless in ECU check mode
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Re: 1998 VQ20 vs VQ25 cefiro fuel use

Postby sproyd » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:19 am

I know that the Knock Sensor isn't critical for engine operation but given that the ECU switches to safe tables which essentially cut power and screw fuel usage you think it would help if the check engine light did come up when the KS gives up the ghost!! Nissan engineers alone could have saved the planet by adding this feature.
my cardomain
Image
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
VQ20DE w/ OEM Cefiro MEVI = Wildcat High Flow Pod HAI = DR Mod w/ WOT Switch = Clear Headlights Mod = 35% DIY Tints =
sproyd
2500 rpm
2500 rpm
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:32 pm
Location: AKL.NZ.City of Snails


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